Comments on: Derailing the Carbon Drivetrain http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/ Pro Cycling News, Commentary and Special Features Fri, 18 May 2012 13:20:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: beats http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-20946 beats Tue, 10 May 2011 22:50:09 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-20946 Nice posting! I cling on to listening to the reports.I like that there’s a keep a copy system of an elastic wire and magnets holding the pin mechanism in place.<a href="http://www.headphonesbymonster.com" rel="nofollow">Beats By Dre</a> Nice posting! I cling on to listening to the reports.I like that there’s a keep a copy system of an elastic wire and magnets holding the pin mechanism in place.Beats By Dre

]]> By: ZigaK http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-12868 ZigaK Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:52:47 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-12868 What about Rohloff hub gears? http://www.rohloff.de/en/technical/efficiency/ apparently it has the same efficiency as the standard transmission What about Rohloff hub gears?
http://www.rohloff.de/en/technical/efficiency/
apparently it has the same efficiency as the standard transmission

]]> By: walter http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-12687 walter Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:42:14 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-12687 @nmanhipot Don't compare motorcycles to human powered bicycles. The former have almost unlimited energy, the latter have to be extremely efficient. What works perfectly on a motorcycle, can be unacceptable for a bicycle. As for the carbon drive, the problem is in gears. Hub gears simply waste to much energy. An don't get me started about the NuVinci... @nmanhipot
Don’t compare motorcycles to human powered bicycles. The former have almost unlimited energy, the latter have to be extremely efficient. What works perfectly on a motorcycle, can be unacceptable for a bicycle.

As for the carbon drive, the problem is in gears. Hub gears simply waste to much energy. An don’t get me started about the NuVinci…

]]> By: nmanhipot http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-10787 nmanhipot Tue, 12 May 2009 18:16:42 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-10787 Well, I'm late to the party, but I found this article, so possibly others might as well. Belt-driven drive-trains are poorly designed and doomed to mushy performance, skipping and derailing? Perhaps we're forgetting the "real world". The world that exists outside of cycling. Granted, you can't find rider weight limits on frames, forks or saddles and companies won't allow their products to be tested against one another, but I'm looking forward to internally-geared belt-driven bicycles. After reading all the bad press on polycogs for bicycles, I was surprised to see nothing but belts at the Harley-Davidson showroom taking the full wrath of 96 cubic-inch heavy-breathing fire-bellies. Oh, and the dealer said they're good for at least 60,000 miles. Go ahead and complain, if you must, but handmade leather polycogs graced the giant flywheels of the earliest motorized bicycles and are still going strong today. I for one am looking forward to a very low maintenance drivetrain, as opposed to having to replace chains two or three times per year, cassettes once or twice per year and chainrings every other year. Well, I’m late to the party, but I found this article, so possibly others might as well.

Belt-driven drive-trains are poorly designed and doomed to mushy performance, skipping and derailing?

Perhaps we’re forgetting the “real world”. The world that exists outside of cycling. Granted, you can’t find rider weight limits on frames, forks or saddles and companies won’t allow their products to be tested against one another, but I’m looking forward to internally-geared belt-driven bicycles.

After reading all the bad press on polycogs for bicycles, I was surprised to see nothing but belts at the Harley-Davidson showroom taking the full wrath of 96 cubic-inch heavy-breathing fire-bellies. Oh, and the dealer said they’re good for at least 60,000 miles. Go ahead and complain, if you must, but handmade leather polycogs graced the giant flywheels of the earliest motorized bicycles and are still going strong today. I for one am looking forward to a very low maintenance drivetrain, as opposed to having to replace chains two or three times per year, cassettes once or twice per year and chainrings every other year.

]]> By: frank scurlock http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-2821 frank scurlock Mon, 10 Sep 2007 05:04:41 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-2821 Would dig passing on some "real" information about the belt system. Geez, rough crowd in here. Frank Scurlock Carbon Drive Systems frank@spotbikes.com Would dig passing on some “real” information about the belt system. Geez, rough crowd in here.

Frank Scurlock
Carbon Drive Systems

frank@spotbikes.com

]]> By: gtveloce http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-2652 gtveloce Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:50:46 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-2652 Of course it wasn't Phil who said that, I'm just losing my mind and confusing my bike bloggers. But I still think belts are interesting ;-) Of course it wasn’t Phil who said that, I’m just losing my mind and confusing my bike bloggers. But I still think belts are interesting ;-)

]]> By: gtveloce http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-2651 gtveloce Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:46:41 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-2651 Setting aside the carbon marketing spin, I've no problem with people investigating alternative drive chain methods. Although as Phil has pointed out this is hardly new. The Johns Hopkins research (original source article <a href="http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> with more pics) doesn't compare belts with chains, and I'm no engineer, but however elegant chains may be they are made from many, many more moving parts than a belt. All of which pose frictional, wear and lubrication challenges. From a practical point of view removing one row of cam-drive chain from a car engine will release 3-5 additional horsepower and allow the engine to rev more freely. Replacing the chain with a belt appears to also release a few extra horses and will definitely reduce maintenance. The chain in my old Alfa is a wonderful, noisy and fiddly thing to adjust, but the belts in modern cars need no adjustment or lubrication, are quieter, last longer and are replaced 'just in case'. They also retain cam timing spec far longer, which keeps the engine within exhaust pollution standards. But there's little in common between a car revving to 8,000 rpm and delivering umpteen kW and a bike rider spinning at 100 rpm. Other than the inevitable chain stretch, the need for lubrication, wear and quite frequent replacement. A belt drive may or may not be more efficient but it will require less maintenance, is simpler and will probably last forever. Combined with hub gears or some other gearing method belts may well have a big future on bikes. Or maybe shaft drive will deliver even greater benefits? Mind you, the UCI will probably ban it anyway. Setting aside the carbon marketing spin, I’ve no problem with people investigating alternative drive chain methods. Although as Phil has pointed out this is hardly new. The Johns Hopkins research (original source article here with more pics) doesn’t compare belts with chains, and I’m no engineer, but however elegant chains may be they are made from many, many more moving parts than a belt. All of which pose frictional, wear and lubrication challenges.

From a practical point of view removing one row of cam-drive chain from a car engine will release 3-5 additional horsepower and allow the engine to rev more freely. Replacing the chain with a belt appears to also release a few extra horses and will definitely reduce maintenance. The chain in my old Alfa is a wonderful, noisy and fiddly thing to adjust, but the belts in modern cars need no adjustment or lubrication, are quieter, last longer and are replaced ‘just in case’. They also retain cam timing spec far longer, which keeps the engine within exhaust pollution standards.

But there’s little in common between a car revving to 8,000 rpm and delivering umpteen kW and a bike rider spinning at 100 rpm. Other than the inevitable chain stretch, the need for lubrication, wear and quite frequent replacement. A belt drive may or may not be more efficient but it will require less maintenance, is simpler and will probably last forever.

Combined with hub gears or some other gearing method belts may well have a big future on bikes. Or maybe shaft drive will deliver even greater benefits? Mind you, the UCI will probably ban it anyway.

]]> By: Kevin http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-2632 Kevin Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:12:40 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-2632 ^^ Sweeeeeet... Now THAT'S how to ride a bike... ^^

Sweeeeeet… Now THAT’S how to ride a bike…

]]> By: spokejunky http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/comment-page-1/#comment-2616 spokejunky Wed, 29 Aug 2007 23:28:41 +0000 http://cyclocosm.com/2007/08/derailing-the-carbon-drivetrain/#comment-2616 Yeah, but imagine this carbon drivetrain mounted to a NuVinci: http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2007/tech/news/01-31/NuVinci_cutaway hub, while riding my white carbon commuter, listening to my mp3 shorts: http://www.pearlizumi.com/product.php?mode=view&product_id=758231 sloshing down my Starbucks with my coffee mug: http://www.somafab.com/morningrush.html all the while emailing my friends on my bike mounted blackberry: http://www.ram-mount.com/index_files/ramb149zaq2.jpg Yeah, but imagine this carbon drivetrain mounted to a NuVinci:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2007/tech/news/01-31/NuVinci_cutaway

hub, while riding my white carbon commuter, listening to my mp3 shorts:

http://www.pearlizumi.com/product.php?mode=view&product_id=758231

sloshing down my Starbucks with my coffee mug:

http://www.somafab.com/morningrush.html

all the while emailing my friends on my bike mounted blackberry:

http://www.ram-mount.com/index_files/ramb149zaq2.jpg

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