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	<title>Comments for Cyclocosm - Pro Cycling Blog</title>
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	<link>http://cyclocosm.com</link>
	<description>Pro Cycling News, Commentary and Special Features</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:45:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by Larry T.</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32432</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32432</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll stop ragging on the electronic stuff as there&#039;s no doubt it is at some level the old-fart thing but on the other hand I would like to take issue with the idea that being competitive in bike racing is so expensive. Some of the comments on the &#039;cross bit elaborated on this. The bike industry LOVES to make folks think they need expensive gear to be competitive but how much does it REALLY cost to buy a decently performing Chinese-made bike from an outfit like, say, Neuvation? Nobody is going to convince me that an athlete using one of those is going to be at any measurable disadvantage in anything less than a Grand Tour (and arguably not even there) vs an athlete on a $15 K Cervelo with Dura Ace DI2. Enjoy playing with the gizmos and &quot;racing&quot; against your pals but don&#039;t get confused, the real guys pin on numbers and get out there to see how they stack up under the exact same conditions and at the same time as their competitors. The rest of it is just playing around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll stop ragging on the electronic stuff as there&#8217;s no doubt it is at some level the old-fart thing but on the other hand I would like to take issue with the idea that being competitive in bike racing is so expensive. Some of the comments on the &#8216;cross bit elaborated on this. The bike industry LOVES to make folks think they need expensive gear to be competitive but how much does it REALLY cost to buy a decently performing Chinese-made bike from an outfit like, say, Neuvation? Nobody is going to convince me that an athlete using one of those is going to be at any measurable disadvantage in anything less than a Grand Tour (and arguably not even there) vs an athlete on a $15 K Cervelo with Dura Ace DI2. Enjoy playing with the gizmos and &#8220;racing&#8221; against your pals but don&#8217;t get confused, the real guys pin on numbers and get out there to see how they stack up under the exact same conditions and at the same time as their competitors. The rest of it is just playing around.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by Bert Bondy</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32427</link>
		<dc:creator>Bert Bondy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32427</guid>
		<description>Larry T: Definitely an old fart thing. 

Thanks for the Leaderboard gizmo Cosmo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry T: Definitely an old fart thing. </p>
<p>Thanks for the Leaderboard gizmo Cosmo!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by cosmo</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32426</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32426</guid>
		<description>@Larry T: the implication wasn&#039;t that 105 isn&#039;t competitive. 105 is pretty amazing, all things considered. It&#039;s just to point out that the &quot;RACE&quot; you hold up as the only &quot;real&quot; form of competition is extremely expensive—especially when you look at the &quot;gizmos&quot; that actually make &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.all3sports.com/bike/bike-carbon-race-wheels.html?gclid=COTd0szqia4CFYeK4Aod9yc45w&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a performance difference&lt;/a&gt;, or tally up a season&#039;s worth of gas money and entry fees. 

While I agree completely that competition-by-proxy isn&#039;t the same as a &quot;race&quot;, it is extremely inexpensive by comparison, and it&#039;s not hard to imagine athletes for whom it&#039;s the only financially viable means of competition.

And as to the &quot;tailwinds on groundhog hill&quot;,  the fact is that in a &quot;real RACE&quot; judges aren&#039;t impartial (just ask &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/controversial-finish-in-gent-wevelgem&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Flecha&lt;/a&gt;) and &quot;real RACE&quot; conditions aren&#039;t always consistant (just ask &lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4053370059753722614&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Durand or Boardman&lt;/a&gt;).  If anything, the trainer/&quot;video game&quot; scenario you mention with some disdain above is the most &quot;fair&quot; competition posible since digital variables can be absolutely controlled for all riders.

But again, I think this is beside the point—Strava isn&#039;t intended to be, nor is it extensively used as, a surrogate for sanctioned racing. Riding and training data have always existed, it&#039;s just that there used to be no way to record and tally them. Even before technology could accurately clock everything from wattage to inclination, club riders (and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4696/Tour-de-France-Armstrong-says-hes-ready-close-to-best-form.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pros&lt;/a&gt;) kept semi-competitive records of times on local climbs. The only thing that&#039;s changed is the ability to record, analyze, and share data—and I think it&#039;s silly to say that now that such technology exists, riders are somehow wrongheaded for using it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Larry T: the implication wasn&#8217;t that 105 isn&#8217;t competitive. 105 is pretty amazing, all things considered. It&#8217;s just to point out that the &#8220;RACE&#8221; you hold up as the only &#8220;real&#8221; form of competition is extremely expensive—especially when you look at the &#8220;gizmos&#8221; that actually make <a href="http://www.all3sports.com/bike/bike-carbon-race-wheels.html?gclid=COTd0szqia4CFYeK4Aod9yc45w" rel="nofollow">a performance difference</a>, or tally up a season&#8217;s worth of gas money and entry fees. </p>
<p>While I agree completely that competition-by-proxy isn&#8217;t the same as a &#8220;race&#8221;, it is extremely inexpensive by comparison, and it&#8217;s not hard to imagine athletes for whom it&#8217;s the only financially viable means of competition.</p>
<p>And as to the &#8220;tailwinds on groundhog hill&#8221;,  the fact is that in a &#8220;real RACE&#8221; judges aren&#8217;t impartial (just ask <a href="http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/controversial-finish-in-gent-wevelgem" rel="nofollow">Flecha</a>) and &#8220;real RACE&#8221; conditions aren&#8217;t always consistant (just ask <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4053370059753722614" rel="nofollow">Durand or Boardman</a>).  If anything, the trainer/&#8221;video game&#8221; scenario you mention with some disdain above is the most &#8220;fair&#8221; competition posible since digital variables can be absolutely controlled for all riders.</p>
<p>But again, I think this is beside the point—Strava isn&#8217;t intended to be, nor is it extensively used as, a surrogate for sanctioned racing. Riding and training data have always existed, it&#8217;s just that there used to be no way to record and tally them. Even before technology could accurately clock everything from wattage to inclination, club riders (and <a href="http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4696/Tour-de-France-Armstrong-says-hes-ready-close-to-best-form.aspx" rel="nofollow">pros</a>) kept semi-competitive records of times on local climbs. The only thing that&#8217;s changed is the ability to record, analyze, and share data—and I think it&#8217;s silly to say that now that such technology exists, riders are somehow wrongheaded for using it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by Larry T.</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32396</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32396</guid>
		<description>Dunno Cosmo...maybe it&#039;s only the generational thing for me. But at least with showing up, pinning on a number (and I&#039;m not buying your implication that somehow you can&#039;t be competitive unless your components are equal to Ultegra when I can remember some pros at LeTour riding on Campagnolo Chorus back-in-the-day) and RACING - the judges are impartial, the actual event is the same for everyone (no tailwinds on the day you &quot;beat&quot; your friends up groundhog hill while they were at work) and everyone can see who did what and to whom as far as results. This electronic game scheme&#039;s not far from hooking a gizmo up to your home trainer, which is not far from a video game..while ALL of that is FAR from a real RACE. I just can&#039;t help feeling if one feels they have something to prove (or find out) on a bicycle regarding competition, it should be in a RACE (even if it&#039;s a time trial)rather than via an electronic/computerized &quot;post the best time whenever you like&quot; scheme.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunno Cosmo&#8230;maybe it&#8217;s only the generational thing for me. But at least with showing up, pinning on a number (and I&#8217;m not buying your implication that somehow you can&#8217;t be competitive unless your components are equal to Ultegra when I can remember some pros at LeTour riding on Campagnolo Chorus back-in-the-day) and RACING &#8211; the judges are impartial, the actual event is the same for everyone (no tailwinds on the day you &#8220;beat&#8221; your friends up groundhog hill while they were at work) and everyone can see who did what and to whom as far as results. This electronic game scheme&#8217;s not far from hooking a gizmo up to your home trainer, which is not far from a video game..while ALL of that is FAR from a real RACE. I just can&#8217;t help feeling if one feels they have something to prove (or find out) on a bicycle regarding competition, it should be in a RACE (even if it&#8217;s a time trial)rather than via an electronic/computerized &#8220;post the best time whenever you like&#8221; scheme.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by cosmo</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32318</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 22:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32318</guid>
		<description>You should now be able to toggle units between metric and English/imperial/whatever Americans use by clicking the link the upper right. 

(I&#039;ll probably move that link somewhere else once I&#039;m sure it works)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should now be able to toggle units between metric and English/imperial/whatever Americans use by clicking the link the upper right. </p>
<p>(I&#8217;ll probably move that link somewhere else once I&#8217;m sure it works)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by JMo</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32205</link>
		<dc:creator>JMo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 07:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32205</guid>
		<description>Well done!  Our shop club, Endless Cycles, will make fine use of this app. It&#039;s just what we&#039;ve been looking for, Thank You!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done!  Our shop club, Endless Cycles, will make fine use of this app. It&#8217;s just what we&#8217;ve been looking for, Thank You!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by Seth</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32164</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 00:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32164</guid>
		<description>This is awesome. Thanks for writing this and sharing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is awesome. Thanks for writing this and sharing it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by cosmo</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32157</link>
		<dc:creator>cosmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32157</guid>
		<description>@Timo: First thing I&#039;m going to fix. Dawned on me about halfway through, but think I have a good, quick fix in mind. Hopefully ready within the week.

@huphtur: I&#039;ll think about it. My ability to access/slice up the data that goes into the leaderboard isn&#039;t quite as nimble as I&#039;d like, but I may be able to put together something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Timo: First thing I&#8217;m going to fix. Dawned on me about halfway through, but think I have a good, quick fix in mind. Hopefully ready within the week.</p>
<p>@huphtur: I&#8217;ll think about it. My ability to access/slice up the data that goes into the leaderboard isn&#8217;t quite as nimble as I&#8217;d like, but I may be able to put together something.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by Timo</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32043</link>
		<dc:creator>Timo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 06:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32043</guid>
		<description>Metric option please!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metric option please!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Strava Club Leaderboards by huphtur</title>
		<link>http://cyclocosm.com/2012/02/introducing-strava-club-leaderboards/comment-page-1/#comment-32009</link>
		<dc:creator>huphtur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 19:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cyclocosm.com/?p=5446#comment-32009</guid>
		<description>Sweet, you should set it to be X amount of days (30, 7 or user input maybe?) instead of starting fresh each month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sweet, you should set it to be X amount of days (30, 7 or user input maybe?) instead of starting fresh each month.</p>
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